Needing to Rant
There is an argument going on here and here about the killing of innocent civilians. Chardal ranted about how Western Morals cause us to put our (Israeli) lives at risk and the Torah way is to kill their (Palestinian) civilians if it protects ours. Dovbear countered with a sarcastic "blessing" "that we can be free to kill, maim and, God-willing, mutilate, some brown-skinned, civillian Arabs." This lasted all day and ended with Chardal banning DovBear from commenting on his blog.
Usually I read people's blogs to see other viewpoints. I dont need to read peope reinforcing what I already know. (Although it is nice to see another source or another argument to defend my views). But I was beyond shocked at what I read, of the opinion Orthodox Jews in America have towards their brethren here. I'm not going to start quoting Rishonim or Gemara, since whatever you are going to say you can find something to support you. But some common sense!? Do you look at Israeli soldiers the same way you look at a stratego board? Sure you have to lose a few here or there, but who cares as long as you capture their flag? Do you know any soldiers? Would you send your brother/son to die, but tell him "you're important to me, but not as important as the people over there. Sure they're standing next to a terrorist. But I would rather you die then them getting hurt." Do you not realize that every time we try not to hurt their civilians, we kill our soldiers?
You read posts like this and yell "bloodthirsty killers! twisting the Torah to justify your murderous ways!"But you clearly don't understand. We are not saying we want to kill, we are saying "there is a time to kill". And that time is when our lives at risk. But since your life isn't at risk, sitting at your home in NY, you dont worry about suicide bombers or rockets, or gunmen shooting on your main streets, then you dont care. You look at Israel from your "objective" eyes, the way you would look at Serbia, or Chechnya. You act like these aren't your people here. Your rulebook says soldiers should never kill civilians. Not for once do you realize that this isnt a regular battlefield for you. These are you brothers defending your land. Which other nationality would say that they would rather their own family die then another? Yet you say that Jewish blood isn't so important to you. You even have the audacity to say you "respect those soldiers that died instead of hurting enemy civilians". I respect that they put their lives on the line for our country, but I am disgusted that our country doesnt put itself on the line for them. That our country sacrifices these men so as not to look bad in the eyes of the world. Nothing should be worth more to you then a Jewish life. Nothing! And even if it sounds so un-PC, so not American, that is part of being a Jew. But you deny this. You dont look at him as a Jew should look at another Jew, you look at him through your ""moral" eyes of what you feel is right and wrong.
And I understand why. You have no real connection here. Except for the three mumblings a day about returning to Jerusalem, you are purely American with a Jewish mother. How can I expect you to understand what we are fighting for here if you've never sweated for this land. Never sacrificed. Never went through the army, never left your job, your home, given up on the chance to make that fortune, and come here. This land is only appreciated through sacrifice. So you can continue to sit there and judge us. I used to think of your opinion as a fellow Jew, and it hurt, but now I realize that your opinion is of a pure American, who also happens to be Jewish.
Usually I read people's blogs to see other viewpoints. I dont need to read peope reinforcing what I already know. (Although it is nice to see another source or another argument to defend my views). But I was beyond shocked at what I read, of the opinion Orthodox Jews in America have towards their brethren here. I'm not going to start quoting Rishonim or Gemara, since whatever you are going to say you can find something to support you. But some common sense!? Do you look at Israeli soldiers the same way you look at a stratego board? Sure you have to lose a few here or there, but who cares as long as you capture their flag? Do you know any soldiers? Would you send your brother/son to die, but tell him "you're important to me, but not as important as the people over there. Sure they're standing next to a terrorist. But I would rather you die then them getting hurt." Do you not realize that every time we try not to hurt their civilians, we kill our soldiers?
You read posts like this and yell "bloodthirsty killers! twisting the Torah to justify your murderous ways!"But you clearly don't understand. We are not saying we want to kill, we are saying "there is a time to kill". And that time is when our lives at risk. But since your life isn't at risk, sitting at your home in NY, you dont worry about suicide bombers or rockets, or gunmen shooting on your main streets, then you dont care. You look at Israel from your "objective" eyes, the way you would look at Serbia, or Chechnya. You act like these aren't your people here. Your rulebook says soldiers should never kill civilians. Not for once do you realize that this isnt a regular battlefield for you. These are you brothers defending your land. Which other nationality would say that they would rather their own family die then another? Yet you say that Jewish blood isn't so important to you. You even have the audacity to say you "respect those soldiers that died instead of hurting enemy civilians". I respect that they put their lives on the line for our country, but I am disgusted that our country doesnt put itself on the line for them. That our country sacrifices these men so as not to look bad in the eyes of the world. Nothing should be worth more to you then a Jewish life. Nothing! And even if it sounds so un-PC, so not American, that is part of being a Jew. But you deny this. You dont look at him as a Jew should look at another Jew, you look at him through your ""moral" eyes of what you feel is right and wrong.
And I understand why. You have no real connection here. Except for the three mumblings a day about returning to Jerusalem, you are purely American with a Jewish mother. How can I expect you to understand what we are fighting for here if you've never sweated for this land. Never sacrificed. Never went through the army, never left your job, your home, given up on the chance to make that fortune, and come here. This land is only appreciated through sacrifice. So you can continue to sit there and judge us. I used to think of your opinion as a fellow Jew, and it hurt, but now I realize that your opinion is of a pure American, who also happens to be Jewish.
posted by stillruleall at 11:50 PM
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